Interview with readers: today with the delegate of the CdV in Extremadura

Ángel Manuel García: “I hope countries like Spain, UK and France to have a Donald Trump”

This week I dedicate the section of interviews to readers to one of the youngest -apart from collaborator- followers of Counting Stars: Ángel Manuel García Carmona.

Translation by Ángel Manuel García Carmona

He is 21 years old and has taken advantage of that in a loable way. He is a student of Computer Engineering, speaks English and has knowledge of French and Estonian. This admirer of Estonia and Poland is founding member and manager in Extremadura of El Club de los Viernes, a thriving classical liberal platform. He also collaborates with the Acton Institute and is columnist at Religión en Libertad and commentator in COPE Almendralejo, apart from being owner of a blog with sections in Spanish, English and Polish. You can follow him in Twitter, at @GarciaCarmonaAM.

According to your Twitter profile, you are “Conservatarian”. What does that entail?

“Conservatarian” term is a fusion of English term “conservative” and “libertarian” (classical liberalism is different to libertarianism, because the second one is against the existence of the State while the first just vows on diminishing it to its minimal expression, according to Minarchism tenets, though in English-speaking countries, due to the fact that being liberal implies being progressive and social democrat, classical liberals are called libertarians).

Once I have given the pertinent explanations about the term, I am going to talk about that ideology.

“Libertarianism is not relativism”

I consider myself libertarian to the extent that I am against the inhibition of the intervention of the State both in the economy both in the society. From my point of view, the market is who guarantees better the goods and services, in a sphere of “economical democracy”, that is, a conception of Ludwig Von Mises economist about that phenomena that brings citizens no only the offer of goods, but also deciding and reviewing those that is demanded (whatsmore, the competence is constructive, because it incentives the improvement and innovation of certain services, contrary to state-owned ones), at the same time I consider primordial the guarantee of free speech, free-thinking, conscience and educative liberties, and so on. Now then, I consider myself conservative to the extent that I defend natural institutions like family and marriage, as in values and traditions (in this case, based on Catholicism).

Of course, I know more than one will refute my answer making reference to Why I am not a Conservative, a work of Austrian Economist and Philosopher Friedrich August Von Hayek. But Hayek was not against conservative-libertarianism. He was a committed advocate of tradition and spontaneous orders. A real conservative is somebody who defends even this conception of spontaneous order opposed to the economic intervention of the State, and Natural Law principles such as life, liberty and property. Libertarianism is not relativism.

“El Club de los Viernes” is today one of the most active classical liberal platforms in Spain. What can libertarianism provide to a society like the current?

A social democrat and progressive consensus rules in Spain: all political mainstream (PP-PSOE-C’s-PODEMOS) agrees in raising taxes, spending and indebting us more, and imposing progressive dogmas (pro-abortion, imposition of the ideology of gender, etc.). There’s no tetrapartisanship politicians who cares about educational freedom (also attacked by peripheral nationalists), neither about high level of public debt and dramatic situation of Bismarckian system of pensions. They are ready to continue doing mistakes.

Now then, civil society must does not have to be taught about libertarianism limiting only to Utilitarianism (it is which has induced the governments of another countries to undertake some libertarian reforms along last decades, being a clear example of that Sweden, a country whose Welfare State has failed and is a case of reforms “more friendly” with economic libertarianism: that is so-called “social-liberalism”. Obviously, we cannot negate social democracy has failed like communism (contrast and empirical exercises help us to understand that), but we must also make a philosophical promotion among a society like ours, that rather assistentialism, for the purpose of making them understand it’s convenient both individuals and families enjoy of freedoms. It’s important to promote the principle of subsidiarity, which is not inconsistent with solidarity. Both go hand in hand. United States foundational principles, also characteristic features of American mentality (although some of them are letting be tempted by European social democracy).

By the way, before answering the next question, I would like to remember that according to American conservative think-tank Heritage, Spain has fallen down 5 points in the Index of Economic Freedom, apart from warning about leftist hegemony in culture and education.

“It’s important to promote the principle of subsidiarity, which is not inconsistent with solidarity”

“Culture wars” are also being liven out in the core of libertarianism. Do you think it’s possible to be libertarian distancing yourself from those?

Libertarianism is heterogeneous, but not only because of the distinction between minarchists and anarchists, because there also classical liberals and libertarians imbued by progressivism (they are also experts on expedition of “libertarian cards”), by materialism and relativism, that accept multiculturalism and results of experiments of social engineering (this latter was considered by libertarian philosopher Hans-Hermann Hoppe as a kind of socialism).

Now then, pro-freedom activists must never distance themselves from so-called “cultural wars”. Being libertarian is not only asking for the elimination of Inheritance Tax and the respect towards share economy and ‘low cost’ oil stations. Freedom fighters must not only care about the communist threat (possibility of a POPULAR FRONT, composed by an already radicalized PSOE and PODEMOS) and social democrat dynamics, but also about phenomenons such as laicism, imposition of the ideology of gender, and the risk of islamization of European continent (this would suppose the end of freedoms in the continent, which are enjoyed thanks to the Christian heritage).

Obviously, I am not going to agree with all freedom fighters because there are progressives, but without refusing anytime to the unity for the work in the corresponding clashing points, I consider both conservative-libertarians and, right-libertarians and paleo-libertarians, leaving aside certain differences, must remain unite to face all those problems must cause freedom movement concern. Economy isn’t the least important, but neither the only one.

“Being libertarian is not only asking for the elimination of Inheritance Tax and the respect towards share economy and ‘low cost’ oil stations”

I know CdV has contacts with similar foreign groups, among them, KoLiber, from Poland. Do you think that having suffered Nazism and Communism gives Polish libertarians a different character than Spaniards?

It’s impossible to answer directly. I think it is better exposing brief information about the context.
The experience of Nazism and, specially, of Communism is something that has left an imprint not only on Polish libertarians, but also in the society of the country. Sociological communist resistance is tremendous. Almost nobody tries to acclaim publicly that ideology (besides, the Polish equivalent of Spanish far-left PODEMOS is, according to election polls, under the minimal threshold to enter in the Low Chamber of Parliament). Neither sympathy towards Nazi totalitarianism, contrary to Hungary, where the second most important party is Neo-Nazi (we must also remember Polish feelings are still too affected by the damages of Nazi Germany to Poland during the II World War).

Additionally, it should be noted that Poland is nowadays one of the most Catholic European countries owing to the significant role of Catholic Church for the fall of Iron Curtain (we must remember Saint John Paul II and the Church influence on Solidarity trade union, then capitalist, because now it supports economical interventionism.

“The experience of Nazism and, specially, of Communism is something that has left an imprint not only on Polish libertarians, but also in the society of the country”

Therefore, we can consider Poles as a firm society against totalitarianism (it has nothing to do with Spanish left anxiety to divide again Spaniards in two ideological sides, like in the Spanish Civil War), but also as courageous people that don’t let themselves to be intimidated by left-wing and not to apologize for existing, conversely to Spanish sociological right-wing, that even not shows interest to discuss leftist and biased versions of some historical chapters. Then, most Polish youth is not only morally and socially conservative, but also more economical libertarian than their antecessors (they do not like neither communist RAZEM and centre-leftists from “Modern” and “Civic Platform” no the ruling party, because it is very interventionist in economical issues).

Now then, particularly, regarding the pro-freedom movement, the main differences are due to the fact that in the Polish case moral conservatism and interest on defending Western Christian Values prevail. They are also mostly pro-life and even pro-family. In the case of KoLiber, it’s important to point out there’s a specific department for the pro-life cause and that its fellows participate in pro-life and pro-family marches. Then, another thing I appreciate is they are worried about the European Union project of political union (in Spain, Euroscepticism is generally an issue of fascists and left-wingers in general).

Indeed, if I had to build a conservative-libertarian grassroots movement, I’d borrow totally from KoLiber, apart from American right-wing. They are steady supporters both of economical freedom, Natural Law, equality before the law, subsidiarity, Western Values and human dignity.

In Spain, there’s nothing based on libertarian conservatism. In addition, we must take into account being conservatarian does not imply only asking for primary elections in a party of irreversible shift to left like PP and calling themselves “aguirrist”. Anyway, still understanding what can suppose some comparisons to after 2012 PP, we must be aware in reality, politicians like Aznar -despite of being the best president Spanish has had until nowadays- and Aguirre cannot be compared to conservatives like Mike Pence and Margaret Thatcher for the same reason we cannot put Albert Rivera at the same level than Pablo Iglesias.

“If I had to build a conservative-libertarian grassroots movement, I’d borrow totally from KoLiber, apart from American right-wing”

Is it an advertising what is happening in Spain regarding the gender ideology?

Since some years ago, there have been sectors of society (mainly feminist and LGBT lobbies) that has exerted pressures in basis to so-called “progressive inquisition” or “dictatorship of political correctness”, with few obstacles because sadly, Spanish sociological right-wing is coward and/or snobbish (apart from the fact that PP has turned into left-wing).

So, there have been a bottom-up influence that has derived both in social engineering results like same-sex marriage and in SOGI laws that have already been passed in more than one Autonomous Community (for example, those promoted by Cifuentes, Monago and Feijóo) apart from being foreseen the a national law like them, to be approved in September (proposed by PODEMOS, but subscribed even by PP and C’s). In other words, a censorship also evidenced in the attempts to ban presentations of research works that refute that branch of cultural Marxism (for example, the book of the teacher Alicia Rubio) is becoming a law.

The imposition of the ideology of gender is both social engineering and an attack against the equality before the law (for so-called “positive discrimination”), the presumption of innocence (it also happens with the Law of Violence of Gender and the recent agreement) and freedoms such as expression (they try to make a crime the affirmation of biological theories), conscience and religious (there’s an attempt to ban Christian vision towards family and marriage).

“A censorship also evidenced in the attempts to ban presentations of research works that refute that branch of cultural Marxism (for example, the book of the teacher Alicia Rubio) is becoming a law”

You tend to talk much about Visegrad, a group of four countries -Poland, Hungary, Slovakia and Czech Republic- that are distancing from Brussels progressive policies. Could be there the breakpoint of the European Union?

Although Euroscepticism is higher in some Western countries (despite of election results of latest French and Dutch elections suggest the opposite apparently, when in reality these are not neither an improvement sign for the winners: Macron and Rutte) than in some of Central-Eastern part, according to the Pew Research Center, I insist Visegrad Group ought to be the next on considering the exit from the European Union, being advisable joining in the European Free Trade Association (EFTA), whose only purpose is free trade.

That European Union that opposes to put sanctions against the Venezuelan tyranny and maintains such certain alliance with dictatorships of Cuba and China is pretending to sanction Poland, Hungary and Czech Republic for not accepting so-called “refugees” (Muslim immigrants). The fact that conservative Hungarian and Polish governments resist to the imposition of ideology of gender and pressures to legalize same-sex marriage and remove any guarantee of unborn children right to life (thanks to a Orban’s reform, Hungarian Constitution safeguards that right) is worrying for eurobureaucrats. For sure, neither FIDESZ nor “Law and Justice” are eurosceptical parties: it’s different that they challenge European progressive and social democrat establishment.

Anyway, we must point out that according to the polls, in Slovakia does not cease to rise the libertarian a Eurosceptic party “Freedom and Solidarity” (it also ranks the estimations). Meanwhile, in Poland, rock singer Pawel Kukiz’s party, with an important conservatarian section, and also Eurosceptic, would improve its parliamentary representation. Even we must remember Orban could revalidate and enlarge his absolute majority.

Thus there’s no doubt that Visegrad could be the next detonator.

“The fact that conservative Hungarian and Polish governments resist to the imposition of ideology of gender is worrying for eurobureaucrats”

You are up to speed about American hot news. Is Trump a valid reference for European right-wing?

On its day, last wear, I said someone with an artificial conservatism could not be a reference for European right-wing (Trump did not become pro-life and pro-life because of an intellectual evolution, but according to an advantage of electoral strategy). Nevertheless, it’s totally plausible his campaign commitments regarding values remain (he nominated pro-life judges like Neil Gorsuch and has also compromised to protect Near East Christians).

He’s not being pleasant for the LGTBI lobby (examples of that are the removal of a White House web section dedicated to that lobby, the forbidding of transsexuals to serve in the US Army and the fact of not declaring June as “Gay Pride Month”, despite of maintaining some things in the Pentagon and not questioning gay marriage).

Trump has also proposed tax reductions and spending cuts (at the moment, Keynesian issues and proposal of so-called “helicopter of Friedman” are far from), apart from a meritocrat migratory reform. He wants Obamacare to be withdrawn. Then, it’s true he has suggested a tax on imports and that he took USA out of Transpacific commercial agreement, but whereas the first is a mistake, the second shouldn’t be worrying unless Donald put more obstacles to free trade (in reality, unilateral orders of commercial liberalization would be better).

Therefore, in general terms, we can consider Trump’s government can be in a certain way a reference for European right-wing (it’s important to remember Trump counts on advisers from the Heritage think-tank and has a conservative team and a convinced libertarian-conservative vice president). I hope countries like Spain, United Kingdom and France to have a Donald Trump, that is, someone not only more or less fiscal conservative, but also committed with Western values and opposite to Western dictatorship of political correctness.

Of course, I must recognize Republican senator Ted Cruz continues being my reference. I rely on him alongside others and the “House Freedom Caucus” to rectify any mistake that some Trump’s policies could have.

And yes, I rather an imperfect Trump than a nationalist socialist like Marine Le Pen or a despot like Vladimir Putin, who have amazed not few right-wing Europeans.

“I rather an imperfect Trump than a nationalist socialist like Marine Le Pen or a despot like Vladimir Putin”

Now, let’s talk about your region. Extremadura is one of the Autonomous Communities where every time is more difficult to distinguish between PP and PSOE. What incentive can have today an Extremaduran conservatarian to vote for Monago (president of PP in Extremadura and former regional president)?

Really, Extremaduran libertarian-conservatives cannot have any stimulus to vote for someone that is economically interventionist, pro-abortion and promotor of the ideology of gender. It’s different that some of them could rather him than PSOE and PODEMOS, but in reality, voting PP is not useful (a “minor bad” cannot be a party that has renounced to all its convictions). They are only interested in pleasing progressive masses. Indeed, we must remember that in 2014, Monago said two times he would like to reach an agreement with PODEMOS while a VOX then “purely” libertarian-conservative frightened him.
I oppose to ask for voting for somebody who is a progressive and socialist more. Maybe opposing resistance to communism in civic movements would be more useful than voting for another legislature based on a “waste of time”.

Regarding Monago: “Extremaduran libertarian-conservatives cannot have any stimulus to vote for someone that is economically interventionist, pro-abortion and promotor of the ideology of gender”

You are an authentic devourer of books. What’s your favorite title?

According to the context of the interview, one of my favorites is “El Liberalismo no es Pecado” (in English: Libertarianism is not a Sin), written by Spanish economist Juan Ramón Rallo and Carlos Rodríguez Braun. This book helped me to foster my libertarian economical thinking (although it’s true I never was socialist or commie).

Many 21 years old people rather enjoying of the life. Do you think you are wasting your time with your intellectual curiousness or that they are who waste their time?

Each one has his perspective and criteria at the time of investing the time of their life. Everybody have their preferences. In my case, apart from attending to my labor-academic priorities (I want to be a Computer Engineer not because of labor-market perspective, but because I like that branch of knowledge), linguistic learning and having another hobbies such as photography and programming, I consider entertaining and profitable learning more about those things in which I believe and want to defend through activism. I am not going to discuss about who wastes its time. Each one is free of doing what he wants in his free time (obviously, I’d advise him not to abuse of alcohol and consume drugs). If I considered be wasting my time, I would have already chosen another not disgusting activity. But insist I am not wasting my time with my intellectual curiousness, apart from keeping entertained.

“I consider entertaining and profitable learning more about those things in which I believe and want to defend through activism”

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